Hi I’m Abdullah Sameer, and I’m going to be responding to “The Moral Argument” by DrCraigVideos (Reasonable Faith)
1) Without some objective reference point, we have no way of saying something is up or down
Okay, so let’s make an objective reference point. In a world without consciousness, say a world of rocks and trees, would we care about morality? No. There would be no need to worry about morality. In our world, Pain and suffering and misery is bad. Happiness, thriving, and joy are good. The flourishing of beings with consciousness is what matters. So, we base our morality on this. Anyone disagree?
2) God’s nature provides an objective reference point for moral values.
Hmm. How do you know God’s nature? Did he tell you? Oh, wait you mean in that book? But that book is full of immorality, it allows and justifies slavery, and it allows having sex with your slaves, beating your wife (with certain conditions) or in the case of the Bible it prescribed capital punishment for cursing your parents as in the Bible (Leviticus 20:9)
Is this God’s nature? Shall we pick and choose? Because all I see is the best and worst of humanity in there, and God’s threats of eternal torture (especially eternal torture for a finite crime as understood by majority of Christians and Muslims). I don’t see anything that I would call “objectively moral”, would you? Do we truly know for sure that these are God’s wishes? Because there is great doubt God would want us to harm each other this way. Shouldn’t we leave these things in the past where they belong and move on?
3) All we are left is one person’s viewpoint. This is subjective not objective. Like a preference for strawberry ice cream. doesn’t apply to other people
Who is to say that God’s viewpoint is not just another opinion as well? That God is not a subject. What makes God’s opinion right? Is it because he’s the most powerful and he can harm us if we don’t obey?
Does might make right?
Does God have our best interests at heart? How do we know? If God commanded us something that is harmful to others, or preferred one group against another, would it still be right to obey God? If we define God as caring, wouldn’t he have designed the world to minimize unnecessary suffering? Couldn’t he still have allowed us free will while placing limits on our ability to cause suffering? Surely he could. So, if he is real, he intentionally is allowing us to suffer while having the ability to stop it. Is there any evidence that there is a God out there that cares about us? Is there anyone watching or listening when we cry to God? Doesn’t seem like it. As the Harvard Prayer Study showed, prayers seem to have the same effect as placebo, meaning no effect.
4) God’s essential attribute of love is expressed in his command to love your neighbour. This command provides a foundation upon which we can firm objective goodness generosity self sacrifice and equality and we can condemn greed abuse and discrimination
God doesn’t have any essential attributes that we can outright define without referring to holy books.
There’s no way to know what God wants us to do unless you accept one of the mutually-exclusive holy books. These holy books were written hundreds of years ago, most likely NOT from God, and even if they were, why would God require us to rigidly follow them when we can do perfectly well by coming up with rules for society ourselves? Does it matter what God said? Because we will all cherry pick in different ways.