Response to Mustafa Muhammad Shahin

Mustafa Muhammed Sahin

Mustafa Muhammad Shahin of Muslim Apologetics Australia made a 36 minute response video to my first video I made 2 years ago in August 2016. This was my first video I made which went viral and has over half a million views on YouTube.

This is my response, and I apologize for the length. I wanted to reply to each of his points.

As a reminder this was my first video I ever made after only one year of being exmuslim. I have learned much since then but I am thankful to say I still agree with all of my original points made that day.

I invited Mustafa to discuss these claims in a live conversation but he declined, stating that he doesn’t do live discussions and would prefer I respond to his video with another video.

What follows is my response to each of his points

1) Mustafa’s video was very dismissive of my reasons for leaving Islam. He called my points dubious and stupid and said said he’ll refute them.

I was also very disappointed to hear him say “I don’t believe Abdullah was ever sincere in his heart. I think exmuslims have other evil intentions – other worldly desires which are just too tempting – sex drugs and alcohol intermingling with women. Being an Exmuslim is a lifestyle for Exmuslims. Maybe that’s why they leave Islam.”

The funny thing is that Prophet Muhammad himself told his followers not to judge people’s hearts. He said only Allah knows what’s in their heart. It’s uncharitable of him to assume that I was insincere. And it’s funny he is telling a married family man he wanted to leave Islam for sex drugs and alcohol. LMAO! Good one.

According to some Muslims, no Muslim that ever leaves Islam was sincere. Because if they were sincere, they wouldn’t have left it, right? Wrong. You can be sincere but deluded. Would they say the same, that Hamza Yusuf, Yusuf Estes, Joshua Evans, Bilal Philips, Abdurraheem Green, Abdul Hakim Murad or any other popular convert to Islam was not a sincere Christian because they left Christianity? Hell no.

2) 1:30 “Leaving Islam gets lots of views. He has 600,000 views on this video.”

Actually, no, not everyone who leaves Islam gets so many views. I already had a popular site I ran since 2001 called LightUponLight that has 2.4 million downloads. I am the founder of VerseByVerseQuran which has over 100 recitations by popular Quraat such as Sheikh Alafasy and Husary and so on split verse by verse. My project had 2000 direct downloads at once while I was running it, and God knows how many downloads it now has, even more I’m sure! My work has been featured and used on such Quran sites such as QuranExplorer, King Faisal Quran Institute of Saudi Arabia, Tanzil, and tons of iOS and Android apps.

3) 2:45-5:20 “The Quran was sent as a reminder so obviously it contains stories of Bani Israel which are historical events and it’s from the same God. How does that even cause doubt in your heart is ridiculous?”

It creates doubt when the same stories the Quran states are in the stories of Rabbis who were not prophets. The Talmud does not contain revelations of God by any means. Not to mention, Dr. Finkelstein of “The Bible Unearthed” and other historical scholars acknowledge that there is little evidence that most of the great patriachs – Adam, Noah, Moses, and so on even existed. These are most likely complete fabrications. You can look up this video on YouTube. I should also add, this was one point that sparked my questioning Islam, but I believe there are much stronger points that can show the Quran is false. See my “Top Posts” on my blog for example. Even the early Makkans saw nothing miraculous about these stories. This is what they said: “And they say: The stories of the ancients– he has got them written– so these are read out to him morning and evening.” (Quran 25:5)

4) 6:00 “I’m asking where is Dhul Qarnayn’s wall? He’s like: this is so stupid. Allah told us we have to believe in the unseen.”

I have to laugh at this response. His response to asking for evidence is “Allah” told us to believe in the unseen? Not to mention, in the Quran Prophet Ibrahim asks to see a miracle and that was okay. God showed him birds coming back to life, but it’s not okay for the rest of us to ask for evidence of Muhammad’s stories being true? This is human nature, we want evidence. Only in religion is faith something valuable. Belief without evidence. Everywhere else in life we demand evidence.

Also, the wall of Dhul Qarnayn is not a matter of the unseen. Caliph Umar Al Khattab sent an expedition to find this gate (as recorded in Ibn Kathir and by the muslim geograph Yaqut al-Hamawi), and they found no giant gate trapping an entire nation between two mountains. More details are on my blog post about Dhul Qarnayn.

5) 9:00 “These guys are like hypocrites they want to see Allah. They don’t believe because we can’t find Gog & Magog, but If Gog & Magog comes back would he say now we believe?”

This all goes back to “What is the evidence for the Quran?” For what reason should we believe Muhammad? Because he said he was a prophet? I’d like Mustafa to answer this.

6) 10:44 “Have you looked at every part of the earth to confirm the gate of Dhul Qarnayn doesn’t exist?”

No, but I can be reasonably sure it does not. The gate is described as keeping an entire race of people trapped between two mountains and it required someone with great power, Dhul Qarnayn, to help this tribe with copper and iron. I wonder if Mustafa knows that there is another identical story written at that time where a gate of copper and iron is used to trap a band of people behind a giant gate? It’s called the Syriac Alexander Romance. Maybe he should give it a read. So this leaves us two possibilities: the story is just that, a story, or that there is some magical gate hidden somewhere on Earth that nobody can find. Gee, I wonder which one should I believe? It’s like me telling you that there’s a magical forest with unicorns somewhere on Earth. Please understand that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. The burden of proof would be on me to provide evidence for this, not the other way around. This is basic logic. Mustafa, please look up the burden of proof.

7) 12:33 “Mustafa states the earth is not built upon pillars. The Quran is correcting the misconceptions of the time that earth was held up on pillars. This is accurate and amazing.”

The Quran repeatedly uses inaccurate flawed language to describe simple facts that normal humans without any revelation from God have used to describe the world far more accurately. Plato, 2000 years before Muhammad, wrote, “If man could soar high above the clouds, Earth would resemble “one of those balls which have leather coverings in twelve pieces, and is decked with various colours, of which the colours used by painters on Earth are in a manner samples.”

How did a normal man figure this out? How did Lucretius figure out that the world was made of atoms and used such precise knowledge to describe it? Because humans are ingenious and clever.

8) 15:00 “Why is it an issue that sun goes around the earth? Who said it has to be relevant to humanity?”

Again we are faced by two possibilities. Muhammad thought the Sun and Moon went around the Earth, or he was describing the intergalactic orbit of the Sun around the milky way galaxy. What’s the more reasonable position? We know the state of scientific understanding at that time was limited. How do we know this? We can look at the tafaseer of Quran 18:86. When we look at the tafaseer we notice it was not until Ptolemy’s work was translated into Arabic that the tafaseer reflected the reality that the Sun could not go into a pool of murky water. 440 years after Prophet Muhammad’s death the tafsir says the meaning of the verse is literal, but it gives a second opinion that says it may be not literal. 450 years later they realized the sun was too big to set in the muddy spring. There are more details on my blog post “Does the Sun Set in a Muddy Spring?” My point here is not that the verse is mistaken, even though it is, but we know that Muhammad most likely thought the sun went around the earth and wrote it so. To claim it describes the intergalactic orbit requires additional evidence or is a stretch of reinterpretation.

9) 17:30 “Sun prostrates to Allah could mean obedience or something”

I will just remind Mustafa that the hadith says the sun GOES below Allah’s throne at sunset:

“Once I was with the Prophet (ﷺ) in the mosque at the time of sunset. The Prophet (ﷺ) said, “O Abu Dharr! Do you know where the sun sets?” I replied, “Allah and His Apostle know best.” He said, “It goes and prostrates underneath (Allah’s) Throne; and that is Allah’s Statement:– ‘And the sun runs on its fixed course for a term (decreed). And that is the decree of All-Mighty, the All-Knowing….’ (36.38)”

This is also odd because it’s always sunset somewhere in the world. But nevermind, Muhammad didn’t know that. What’s the more obvious and straightforward interpretation? Muhammad was wrong.

10) 18:43 “Check IslamQA to check sun prostration”

I find it interesting he asks us to check IslamQA. Let’s see what IslamQA says about which was created first – the heaven or the earth?

“So the earth was created first, not spread, then the heaven was created” (Fatwa 70217, IslamQA)

Well done IslamQA. You have just shown the Quran is wrong. The Earth is far younger than the heavens.

11) 21:00 “Science keeps changing and reaffirming itself”

Yes it does. We can take it with a pinch of salt, but much of science is so well proven know it is very unlikely to change. Newton’s laws of motion are an example of this. They work until we get to the edge cases of very tiny objects, and then we need quantum mechanics. Is the theory of gravity likely to be proven incorrect? I dare say not likely.

12) 22:00 “There is no source that says there is millions of them. He’s not quoting any source. He’s drinking too much alcohol and dancing with fairies (theories?)”

I’m not sure about the alcohol and fairies, but The Quran states they will be swarms of them: “And We will leave them that day surging over each other, and [then] the Horn will be blown, and We will assemble them in [one] assembly.” (Quran 18:99)

It it also mentioned in Bukhari that they will be 1000x more of them than humans:

“The Prophet (ﷺ) said, “On the day of Resurrection Allah will say, ‘O Adam!’ Adam will reply, ‘Labbaik our Lord, and Sa`daik ‘ Then there will be a loud call (saying), Allah orders you to take from among your offspring a mission for the (Hell) Fire.’ Adam will say, ‘O Lord! Who are the mission for the (Hell) Fire?’ Allah will say, ‘Out of each thousand, take out 999.’ ” (Bukhari Vol. 6, Book 60, Hadith 265)

It says in Musnad of Ahmed and Sunan of Ibn Majah they will drink all the water. It also says they will drink the lake Tiberias until there is no water left.

Strange he doesn’t even know his own Islamic texts?

13) 25:00 “I don’t have an answer to where we came from. Went from Islam doesn’t have answers to atheism doesn’t have answers.”

I would rather be at “I don’t know” instead of having the wrong answer. I have made a video called “Why Atheism” where I discuss some of the possibilities where our universe came from. There are some decent explanations to these metaphysical answers one can use such as an eternal quantum foam which I discuss in “Why is there something rather than nothing?”

14) 30:00 “There’s no justice in atheism. Thats why you need Islam. It gives justice in the hereafter.”‘

That’s like saying, “You should remain Hindu because Hinduism has Karma, and atheism has no such thing.” Islam has no justice. The justice of Islam is arbitrary and haphazard. The worst criminal Muslim will eventually go to paradise and the best kafir will be in eternal hell. This is not justice. This is a joke. And it’s not true. It was just made up by Muhammad to get people to obey him.

15) 35:00 “When dua is answered exmuslims say its a coincidence.”

I think you don’t understand science. In order for something not to be a coincidence, it has to occur at greater than placebo levels. The Harvard Prayer Study is one such experiment where researchers tried to study the effects of prayer and they found prayer doesn’t work. It has zero effect over placebo.

16) 35:40 “I don’t believe Abdullah was ever sincere in his heart. Its a lifestyle for Exmuslims, sex drugs and alcohol. That’s why they leave.”

I do believe I was sincere, but let’s say I wasn’t sincere. It doesn’t actually matter. Look at my arguments on my videos or blog and see if they made sense. That is the crux of the matter.

In conclusion, the points I made two years ago on my first video still hold true. I have yet to see a strong argument for Islam. If you have one, bring it forward and we will discuss.


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