Month: November 2018

019 – How to Engage With Muslims (Abdullah Sameer on The Secular Jihadists)

I was on the “Secular Jihadists” podcast on October 4, 2018, with Armin Nabavi and Ali Rizvi. The topic was “How to discuss with Muslims”

Abdullah Sameer is an increasingly popular and influential atheist writer and YouTuber who was once a very religious Muslim. He preached Islam for fifteen years and founded popular Islamic websites like Light Upon Light and VerseByVerseQuran. In 2016, he announced that he left Islam in a controversial video that is now nearing a million views. In this episode we will talk about his background—his father was Ismaili and his mother Sunni—and his story of embracing religion only to leave it. We will talk about his remarkable talent of engaging all kinds of people in constructive dialogue, be they Muslims, ex-Muslims, or others. We will also talk about how other ex-Muslims can use platforms like YouTube and blogs to widen this conversation as he has. Don’t miss this!

YouTube version of this podcast: https://youtu.be/VdNXq9entM8

Timestamps:

0:00 Introductions
3:15 Abdullah’s Facebook ban (Anti-Muslim bigotry test).
6:45 Abdullah’s background – How Abdullah transitioned from being a liberal Ismaili to a Sunni Muslim to become an atheist.
11:17 The element of secrecy in the Ismaili community. The original “assassins”.
13:40 Slanders that Abdullah receives (” You were never a true Muslim”).
Light up light website.
15:15 Why Abdullah deep-dived into Islam? Did he Explore any other sects of Shia that are closer to Ismailism? Why not promote Ismailism given it is progressive instead of Sunnism?
26:30 Parallels between Christianity and Ismailism
27:30 -28:50 technical problems
28:50 Did Abdullah used to consider himself an Islamic preacher?
31:20 Is it easier to turn a nominal Muslim into a very religious Muslim? Abdullah’s process of doubting the stories in the Quran and other religious texts.
35:30 The Muslim response to Abdullah’s social media posts about leaving Islam.
39:20 The issue of the burden of proof VS sowing seeds of doubt in Muslims. Street epistemology.
45:05 Was Abdullah’s journey fueled by internal doubts only or were there other external factors or community?
47:25 A lot of information that refutes common claims in the Quran or hadiths or apologetics is available to academia but not readily accessible to the common Muslims.
49:52 How much knowledge is needed for someone to be able to discuss Islam with Muslims and have an impact?
52:40 Is Muhammad a pedophile? The problems with Muhammad’s biography and marriage to Aisha. Are these arguments effective on Muslims?
1:05:15 Other forms of protests/activism (burning the Quran, drawing Muhammad) to challenge taboos and limits of free speech. Are they effective?
1:18:15 Armin’s rebuttal to the claim that more aggressive methods of blaspheming will push Muslims away instead of engaging in the discussion. Death threats.
1:24:45 How does Abdullah respond to Muslims who say “You don’t have enough academic credentials to question/critique Islam”?
1:30:00 Responding to the claim that ex-Muslim activists are targeting the low-hanging fruits and not discussing their issues with Islamic scholars. Bringing Islamic scholars to give a response at ex-Muslims events.
1:39:15 How can we discuss the topic of women removing the hijab without making it seem like a personal attack on colleagues?
1:43:11 Abdullah Sameer’s views on flying donkey (inside joke with Harris Sultan)
1:45:00 When Muslims leave Islam do they keep some cultural aspects of Islam? Mild apostasy VS transformative apostasy.
1:48:40 The “only good” thing out of Islam
1:49:10 Did Abdullah lose any family members because of apostasy?
1:50:20 Social media handles and final remarks.

018 – Stop Hatin’

The need for genuine dialogue between Muslims and Exmuslims with Abdullah Gondal, Abdullah Sameer, and special Muslim guest Aziz on the importance of being respectful, tolerant, and some of the hot questions like “Why is slavery in the Quran” or “Can alcohol ever be permitted?”

YouTube version of this podcast: https://youtu.be/NC86Hh7Yt80

Timestamps:

0:00 Introductions
2:55 What made Abdullah Gondal leave Islam (a quick recap) – being exposed to western criticisms of Islam
3:54 Aziz’s period of questioning and doubting Islam.
7:10 Aziz’s disclaimers. The importance of having a space for discussion of topics freely and openly. Restrictions on free speech and online resources in Muslim majority countries and India.
17:36 Ex-Muslims seem to attract far-right bigots who are not able to separate Islam from Muslims. How best can people push against the ideology of Islam without fueling hate? How Muslims can also come from a place of civility, empathy, and open-mindedness when they are discussing with ex-Muslims.
23:15 There are many interpretations of Islam and each of them is a valid interpretation. The golden age of Islam – were apostates allowed during this period?
30:35 Blasphemy – Asia Bibi’s case. The prophets Muhammad and Ibrahim also practiced blasphemy against other religions’ gods. There is a huge gap between secular education and contemporary Islamic teachings and this has led to the lagging in the development of the Muslim communities
36:10 The problems with the Quran preservation and the collection of hadith. Ibn Kathir Tafsir and his problematic writings.
42:30 How is Islam supposed to be understood? Which parts of the Quran are supposed to be understood through the lens of modern society and which parts are simply for historical purposes. Quran preservation through the oral tradition.
49:39 Moral relativism – Is Aziz calling for an overhaul of the classical understanding of Islam or just tweaking Islam on the edges?
53:26 Is slavery objectively moral in the Islamic context? What is in the Quran or hadith that functions as the basis of objective morality?
59:06 What is special about the classical scholarship? Is alcohol going to be halal in the future? If not, why?
1:08:18 There was an instance in the Quran where scholars made something that was haram into something halal and Allah cursed them. How can this be reconciled with the concept of having classical scholarship lead Islamic reform?
1:12:55 Is Aziz’s moderate stance part of what is being taught to many Muslims?
1:15:00 Religious tolerance – Did Muhammad set a good example of being tolerant of other religions and non-believers?
1:24:51How a lot of Islamic teachings can be interpreted to support extremism and terrorism.
1:28:11 Muhammad’s shift from a pacifist nature when he was not in power to a more aggressive nature after gained more power and moved to Medina.
1:33:30 What qualifies a person to be an Islamic scholar? Why is it academics who specialize in Islamic studies are not regarded as classical scholars?
1:37:26 Is Islam compatible with democracy and secularism?
1:40:20 The importance of engaging in discussion rather than hating Islam. Respecting free speech VS fear-mongering and bigotry.
1:50:03 What are the nuances around freedom of speech and can ex-Muslims criticize Muhammad?
1:55:30 Final remarks.